God of War, Lord of the Rings composer Bear McCreary on dream projects, character themes and his new rock concert – God of War: Ragnarök

From Battlestar Galactica to Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. If you can remember a powerful theme from a TV show, movie or game, chances are it came from the mind of Bear McCreary. We recently got a chance to speak with the composer, and despite a power outage threatening our interview, McCreary took the call and our questions like an absolute professional. Check out the full conversation below:

Q: So you also have a new rock album, The Singularity, with a show. How does it feel to be touring Europe for the first time, and how have you condensed your career into it?

McCreary: “You know, The Singularity came out of something that I’ve been writing since I was 16 years old, right? Like the one of the songs, Escape From The Machines, I actually wrote when I was 16 and I just released that demo yesterday, so it’s always been rolling around in my head. But for the past 20 years, I’ve mostly focused on scoring for media, for film, television and video games. And I think it started to add up that I really missed being in front of an audience.”

“I did a lot of concerts 15 years ago now during my run with Battlestar Galactica. I performed live, I performed the theme from God of War when God of War 2018 came out. I performed Blood Upon the Snow with Hozier when God of War Ragnarök came out. I had these opportunities to do these performances and honestly it just started to weigh on me like I want to do that more, but I don’t want to wait for those opportunities because I want to do that opportunity. So that was really how the singularity started. I wrote a concept rock record that started out as something I would want to do live. But then it kind of grew and I started bringing in my friends and asking my friends of friends. And before you know it, there’s Slash and Serge Tonkin and Corey Taylor and Scott Ian and Jens Kidman and Joe Satriani and Guthrie Coven and Rufus Wainwright. It became a really cool collection of people I knew and people I got to know. And then it was time to go on the road with it, man. And combine it, like you said, with everything else.”

“It’s not the Singularity tour. It’s the Themes and Variations tour. It’s a little bit of everything. So for me it’s come full circle. And I’m playing a piece of music I wrote when I was 16. And I’m playing music from God of War and Battlestar Galactica and new rock songs that I wrote with artists like Serge and Rufus. And for me it’s kind of a celebration of all the music that I’ve been so excited about for the last 20 years. And to get everything into one set, get everyone under one roof and punch through it. It’s pretty exciting.”

Q: As you say, you write, you perform, but there’s also a graphic novel involved. You have a lot of things going on here. First of all, how do you find the time? And second, do you want to do more of that kind of thing? Like branch out creatively on things that people might not immediately associate you with?

McCreary: “I mean, I certainly do. Like you said, I started out making a concept rock record and then made a graphic novel called The Singularity, published by Image Comics. And like the album itself, it’s also a behemoth made up of 16 different artists from all over the industry telling this really cool sci-fi story connected to my album. That was really fun. I’m also in the final stages of developing a musical intended for Broadway. This is another area of creativity that I really enjoy. I think it’s all a reaction to the fact that I’ve been writing music for other people’s stories for so long and love that, but recognize that there are other ways to work with people and I don’t want to limit myself. I don’t know what else lies ahead. I’m definitely having fun with all these things. And I still love composing for film, television and video games. I’m not giving that up. It’s a very exciting time.”

“How do I find the time? I don’t sleep much. I don’t have any hobbies. This is what I do.”

Q: You have a heavy experience with these fantastic worlds in film music, from Godzilla to Battlestar Galactica to Lord of the Rings God of War, as you mentioned earlier. Do you think there’s something in particular that suits you in these wider worlds that are beyond our imagination that you’ve been able to capture with your scores? Or do you think maybe it’s something that’s more in your lap over time?

McCreary: “I grew up immersed in sci-fi, fantasy, horror. Other genres started attracting my attention in high school. And I really dove into classic film and foreign film. But really my heart, it’s like Star Wars, Aliens, The Thing, Highlander. These are the stories that Conan the Barbarian, Star Trek, Willow, Lord of the Rings. It’s like so many things I grew up on.”

“My first job was Battlestar Galactica. My first job was going to space in a thing that was very tonally bold at the time. The tone of that show I don’t think younger people today appreciate because they watch it and go, every show is like that. Yeah, not in 2003, man. Not in 2003, right? And said with love, it was Stargate and Farscape and Star Trek Enterprise. That’s what sci-fi was. And I love those shows, too, but Battlestar really confused people. And delighted them. It captured the imagination.”

“I was 23; that’s where my career started. It also means that I’m not just aligned with this kind of genre and enjoy it, but that’s where my career started, right? I mean, if anything, after working professionally for 10 years, I had to actively and aggressively pursue non-genre projects. I made a film called The Professor and the Madman about the founding of the Oxford English Dictionary. Beautiful period. I mean, it’s like I had to rush to say, I can do this! My mentor was Elmer Bernstein, who wrote the music for The Age of Innocence. I can do this. And they’re like, aren’t you the zombie guy? So it’s fun. But look, it’s a great place to be typecast. I mean, I’m so happy. It has allowed me to play in so many sandboxes with my favorite toys. Terminator, Godzilla, Child’s Play, Lord of the Rings, Halo, Percy Jackson, Walking Dead. It’s an embarrassment of riches, all the things I can play with. That’s also one of the things I think will be fun about my tour. You’re going to hear a lot of stuff like that.”

Q: How do you put that out in the tour, with where you go?

McCreary: “I definitely have some deep cuts. I definitely have some deep cuts. Some things that I thought only I liked. But I’ve heard from fans, I ask people, what do they want to hear? They impress me. Everything on my set has been called out by someone. Besides composing music and playing games and movies, I’ve been going to concerts all my life. I love going to concerts. A concert is like a movie. It’s excitement and release. Excitement and release. When are they going to play that thing I really love? Oh, they’re playing this. I don’t know what that is.”

“It’s like driving it up with, here’s something you know, here’s something you don’t know. Then that tension of, yeah, but they didn’t play those. They didn’t play that one. It’s like going to Guns and Roses, and it’s like the longer they don’t play Sweet Child of Mine or Paradise City, the more you want it. I’ve been thinking about this. For my fan base, it’s really nice because I have my rock record. I have all these themes. I mix things up. I definitely play with that in the setlist. I also like the idea of, I’m not going to keep you waiting. Early on in the set we get to some things that people know that I think are going to be really exciting.”

Q: What do you think are the main differences you encounter in, say, scoring something like a movie versus a game or a TV show versus a movie? What approaches do you take? Are there differences, or do you go in with the same mindset for each?

MCreary: “I will tell you that there are clear, many differences. I would even add two other mediums. I’m currently working in film, television, video games, the musical, heading to Broadway and doing rock records. In all five of these things, essentially your job is to make people feel something. And for me, that’s something narrative.”

“Even a song has a story.”

“It takes you on a journey. A Broadway show has a story. So fundamentally it’s all the same. And it’s all equally challenging. Writing a good theme for a purpose is incredibly difficult. There’s no science to it. You just have to struggle through it. What makes those three notes I wrote for Kratos work? Or what is it about the Godzilla theme written in 1954 that is so effective that I know I can’t top it, so I’m not going to try. That to me is the magic of music. And from there, whether you go to a competition, a film, a show, an album, a musical theater piece or a concert stage, it’s all details after that. You get that core thematic material that makes someone feel something. That’s 99% of the work.”

Q: Something that I found very interesting is talking about story and the way you create that in themes. And I think something you’ve done very well in the scores I’ve listened to and the work I’ve listened to is character. I was wondering how you approach that. Do you imagine the character as a whole as who they are all the time, or do you think about how they are in this moment, how are they in this situation when you take them apart?

McCreary: “That’s a good question. The best way to look at it is to listen to the thematic pieces of God of War, God of War Ragnarök and Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. These three projects I, and many others, but these are just the best examples, have written thematic pieces.”

“I didn’t just write a theme piece. I wrote a fully functioning piece of concert music. And if you listen to that, for example, the Huldra brothers, the dwarf brothers in God of War Ragnarök have their own theme. That’s the first thing I wrote for them. I had no visuals, I only knew their story. It tells their whole story. Every chuckle, every laugh, every twist, the bitter end. It’s all there. And I used it, and the reason I did that is that I wanted to show the directors and the development team that this is how the theme will take its shape.”

“And I knew the theme worked. The same goes for Lord of the Rings. If you listen to Elendil and Isildur on the Lord of the Rings Season 1 record, there’s material that’s not in Season 1. It’s not even in Season 2! But you’re going to hear it, I think, at the end of the show. Something happens when you know the material, and I thought, I wrote this great little theme for the father and son on Numenor in season 1, but now I need to know what it sounds like in a bigger, more tragic, epic version? So I just did it. I think it’s nice that I put that one on the album, I’m revealing my process as it were. When I know a theme is malleable, that’s the way I think about it, it’s malleable, so you can change the tone, and you still know what it is. Then it works.”

“And there are themes I’ve written that are generic enough, that aren’t constructed well enough, that if you change them from major to minor, for example, you don’t recognize it anymore. Or it sounds like something else. If you slow it down or speed it up, you don’t recognize it. It’s almost like a stress test. Okay, I wrote a theme. To answer your question, I’m not just thinking about the moment, right? I think about all the moments. Taste it, then I know: oh, if the character is in a funny moment, I can use this variation. Oh, tragic ending, I use this variation.”

Q: So in that sense, do you see yourself more as sort of maybe like a storyteller for the future, almost a prophetic storyteller?

McCreary: “Always. Well, it’s interesting. First of all, my job is to serve the moment and make sure you feel the right thing in that moment. That’s the highest priority. The reason I kind of slipped past that is that that goes without saying, right? If you mess that up, you’re not doing the right thing. So I’m going to focus right then on what else can you do? I learned this from Elmer Bernstein, my mentor, one of the great film composers of all time, who was always talking about subtext. He said the first thing you have to do is turn off the music and watch the scene.

“Everything that already works doesn’t need music.”

“If the scene is supposed to be scary, and you turn off the music and it’s scary, don’t do anything. Or, if you’re going to do something, do something else. What is the subtext? What has happened to this character before? What could they be thinking about? Are we foreshadowing something ahead? Do you see how I get to your question? You use that broader context to inform the audience on a subconscious level about more nuanced layers of the story.”

“I will tell you that when I started working on Rings of Power, which is perhaps one of the more arcane projects I’ve worked on, I was hired and they sent me the first two scripts. The first thing I said was, okay, who’s the alien? What’s his deal? The room went ice cold and they all looked at each other and it became clear that almost no one knew this. Then I said, ‘guys, I have to stop you now. I understand the secrecy, I understand what’s at stake, but I can’t do my job unless I know everything.’ They said, ‘OK, we’ll send you all the scripts.’ “

“You could tell it was a big ask. I’m usually one of the first to learn the story lines, where is it going, because it ultimately benefits the project if the composer has that information. You’ve worked with, as you said before, secret projects, big projects.”

Q: With your reputation and your production arm, Sparks and Shadows, it seems like you can work with whomever you want, but are there any companies or IPs you would work with right away to collaborate with, again or for the first time?

McCreary: “Sony Santa Monica is definitely among my favorite employees. They’re just great people. Over the years, they’ve really made me feel like I’m part of the team there, even though there are people who have been working on God of War for 20 years. I tell them, I’m a newbie, and they say, you’ve been working here for 11 or 12 years. I’m not one of the veterans, but I get there. I love working there. I’d work there again in a heartbeat.”

“I really enjoyed my time at Marvel and Star Wars. I did Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and I did the Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge VR experience. I was like a kid in a candy store playing with those IPs. That would be a lot of fun. Honestly, man, I would say the dream would be to do Lord of the Rings. I’m doing it. I’ve been so lucky. Honestly, the pie-in-the-sky dream for me is a gaming dream. I would love to score a Mega Man game.”

“Mega Man 2 is the thing that got me into game music. I want Capcom to go back and make another Mega Man game. In fact, if you listen to a song on my Singularity record called Redshift, Redshift is made up of samples I took from NES hardware, Nintendo hardware. Redshift is what my Mega Man score would sound like.”

Q: About the ideas for collaboration with Singularity that you mentioned earlier, and also with this tour, your collaboration with many artists. As you say, friends of friends, people you’ve dreamed of working with. Is there anyone else that you still have that you would be quite willing to work with?

McCreary: “So many. There are so many. And I’m doing some pretty cool stuff right now that I really can’t get into. But I will say that doing Singularity started as an opportunity to write some songs that I like and maybe play them live. And it’s become one of the most creatively satisfying aspects of my life. And it’s not the end, it’s the beginning of a new journey for me. I think I’ve learned a lot about how I want my life to go. And it’s going there and I’m very grateful.”