There was a lot of hype around Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 even before its release, thanks to its unusual concept of a French role-playing game based on Japanese premises, complete with a very distinctive – and beautiful – look. When it launched this spring, it proved to be as brilliant as people had hoped, offering a much-needed revitalizer for turn-based combat.
Perhaps most impressive, however, was the well-written script with strong characters and a challenging, thought-provoking story that made the heart bleed more than once. The woman behind it all is Jennifer Svedberg-Yen, who somewhat unexpectedly lives in northern Sweden in a small town called Östersund. I have been working in games for 23 years and have done numerous interviews, but never in Östersund, which also happens to be my hometown where I live.
So I contacted Jennifer Svedberg-Yen to do an interview about her journey and inspiration, which eventually resulted in the excellent million-seller Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. Fast forward a few weeks of conflicting schedules, travel and a hefty mancold, and I finally got the chance to visit her and sit down at the kitchen table for the interview. I brought my partner (a former Gamereactor colleague) along as a photographer, and she also played the adventure and had some thoughts of her own.
Before you read on, I want to warn anyone who has not yet played Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 that there is still a lot of spoilers will be . Anyone who hasn’t finished the game and plans to do so should choose something else to read for now. That said, enjoy.
You live in a small town in northern Sweden. How was your journey that eventually led you to become a celebrated author of a French RPG with Japanese gameplay?
Svedberg-Yen: It’s a bit of a random story! I grew up in the US and lived in different places around the world. I was in Australia around the time of COVID and I was bored. Everyone was on lockdown. There wasn’t much to do. And I saw a post on Reddit from Guillaume Broche, the game’s Creative Director. At the time, he was working on a passion project in his spare time and was looking for free voice actors for a technical test. And that’s how we first got in touch – I did some random voices for this test.
It was a different game, different characters, a different concept. But we started talking and started discussing the story. And at first I offered to help him with some of the dialogue. And as we discussed the story more and more, he said, oh, will you help me with the story? And later, when they formed the studio and started talking to different investors and advisors, they said, “You can think bigger,” you know, like you’re not overly limiting yourself now. Because at the time we thought it would be a very small project. I mean, we’re still very small, but we thought it would be even smaller, so we kept the scope small. Then Guillaume called me and said, ‘Hey, what do you think about a reboot? We’ll reboot, we’ll start all over again.’ And I said okay, let’s do it! And then we laid the groundwork for Expedition 33.
A year and a half later, COVID was somewhat under control and the lockdown was lifted. Unfortunately, around that time my husband’s father was diagnosed with cancer, so we decided to move to Sweden to be closer to him. A silver lining, I think, was that it brought me closer to the Sandfall team, who are all based in France. At least we are now in the same time zone. So that’s how I ended up in Östersund and that’s how I ended up at Sandfall.
When you write for interactive media, such as video games, how is that different from writing, say, a book or a movie?
Svedberg-Yen: Oh, it’s actually very different from a book, because it’s a very visual medium by nature. And so you really have to think of it more as writing a screenplay, almost, than writing a book. When you write a book, I think, you can often really delve into what the character is thinking and feeling, you can describe things with a combination of senses, you can describe things in a certain way that you can’t necessarily do in a strictly audiovisual medium. But at the same time, you have other tools and other elements that are available to you in audiovisual format. So it’s shifting and using each tool that’s specific to that medium.
And I think what’s really cool about games is that they’re interactive. And so you can really take the player on a journey and put control in their hands. There are a couple of elements. One is through the combat experience, because you really get to know the characters through the many hours of battles. You spend a lot of time exploring with them, and you’re kind of in their shoes, and you really see and feel things as you walk alongside them, your victory is their victory, and vice versa. Players are able to make choices, and that sense of choice allows them to bond with the characters, especially in cases like the relationship dialogue, where they can choose some of the conversation paths. The player travels with the characters and at the very end they have to make a choice. They have both the freedom of choice and the responsibility for the consequences of that choice.
They have to, based on all the information they’ve absorbed during the game, during the story, after all the things they’ve experienced with the characters, and then using their own personal perspective, their own lives, their own values, they have to put that all together and figure out what they want to do. It makes the game and the ending more personal for each player.
When I played the game and it was revealed that the action took place in a painting, I initially felt that there wasn’t that much at stake for the characters in the game. Did the team consider whether this reaction was something players might feel, and what did you think of that?
Svedberg-Yen: Good question, thank you. Yes, we had a lot of discussions internally about how players would react to different revelations. Not only that, but the death of Gustave, which felt right for the game, for the story, although it started as a joke, but it felt like the right storyline for Gustave. But we did wonder, or at least I wondered, are people going to reject Verso? There’s an implicit understanding or assumption with a main character; How will players feel when it’s suddenly yanked out from under them. It’s like when Ned Stark died on Game of Thrones. So we definitely put a lot of thought into that.
And then with the revelation about it being in a painting. First of all, would they understand what that means? And second, will people feel, wait, so none of this matters? Was this all just a dream, didn’t mean anything? Our hope was that after people spent time with the characters, they would realize that these characters are real, you know, to them. And in a way it’s a little meta in that sense, right? Because these are all pixels on a screen. They’re fictional characters, none of them are real. But people were very upset when Gustave died, because Gustave really feels for them. And people were very emotional at the end of the game with the revelation about the canvas world, even though it’s another game. These are fantasy characters. It’s all a story. But people feel an attachment and a real sense of belonging to this group.
And so there’s a little bit of that meta-relationship that we hoped players would definitely engage with. We didn’t want to upset anybody, but we definitely wanted to challenge the player to wrestle with these ideas as well. And I think what’s really cool is that people each have their own individual reactions to all these things. Because they do feel something. And I think that’s one of the great things about games and stories in general, that we can become so attached to what are really just figments of someone else’s imagination. And yet we feel that they’re real. And that is one of the themes and questions of the game; What is real and what is fake? And if it’s real to me, does it matter if it’s fake to someone else? Because it is real to me. Can I define what is real?
We also wanted the players to walk in the shoes of the expedition, because what Gustave’s death does, what this revelation does, is that you really feel like the expedition members, the Lumièrans, because for the expedition members, death is very real, you know? And we can talk about though, oh, well, you know, there’s a plot armor, they’ll never kill this person because they’re the main character. But in this world, for expeditions, people die. When one falls, we move on. When, not if. And so what Gustave’s death does is help the player realize, oh shit, this is real. People can die. You can’t take that for granted. You can’t take safety for granted. And then when you get to the reveal of the third act, you find yourself in the same situation as Lune and Sciel.
It’s like, what? My whole life was just someone else’s therapy session? My whole life, everything I fought for, all that in the grand scheme of things, didn’t that mean anything? It helps the player feel the same as the Lumièrans. But in a way, it is also a reflection of our world. Often our lives, our conflicts, the things that digest our daily thoughts, our individual journeys, in the grand scheme of things, it’s just a small piece of sand, but they are important. Even in the great scheme of things, it is a blip. Even in the grand scheme of things, we are just one second on this huge cosmic timeline. We matter, right? Our lives matter and what we experience matters. And that’s what we really hoped people would get out of it.
Was the team on board with all these ideas you had for the game? Or was it like, ‘Oh, can we really do this’?
Svedberg-Yen: On these controversial issues, we were all on board from the beginning. Guillaume and I came up with the general structure and plot points from the very beginning, before the rest of the team joined. I think I was maybe the third person to join the team? The studio didn’t exist yet when I joined. And when everyone joined, I would do a narrative onboarding session with them and tell them through the story and everyone was stunned. So that was really fun too, after I walked everyone through and saw their reactions and everyone was like, whoa, this is cool, who cares!
But what’s your life like during this creative process? Do you like walking, walking the dog, or just – I don’t know – washing dishes or whatever, while thinking about the campaign and the dialogue?
Svedberg-Yen: Exactly. I’m brushing my teeth. I’m thinking about it. I’m watering my plants. I’m thinking about it. Funny enough, for example, I was growing hydroponic tomatoes in our bathroom. And as I was doing it, I was like, oh, this could be a great plot point. I was writing Gustave and Sciel’s backstory at the time. So I’m like, oh, let’s make Sciel a farmer. yeah. And they have… They have hydroponics. That’s why it’s Aquafarm 3. That’s because I grew hydroponic tomatoes in my bathroom. That’s why Sciel is a farmer. And that’s why she and Gustave met on an Aquafarm project, because I knew Gustave was going to be an engineer. And from there I was like, oh, maybe they had another friend and that was Gustave’s love interest and that could be Sophie. Sophie wasn’t originally in the play or the storyline. She wasn’t in the first act, she wasn’t in the scene of Gommage. It was just going to be Gustave with his students. But as I was working on the backstory, I thought, oh Sophie might be a cool character to meet, she might represent a different perspective in Lumière…. Oh, and maybe we could kill her off! And now you’ll see the Gommage’s heartbreak.
What are the most interesting or horrifying fan-produced things you’ve seen so far?
Svedberg-Yen: I don’t know about cringy, so far everything I’ve seen has been really fun. I’m super impressed with everyone’s creativity, and oh my god. Okay. So first of all, the fan-made stuffed animals are so cute. I want them all! Some people made amazing figurines, like Monoco, and Maelle, and Verso statues, statues of all the characters. I was impressed. They are so detailed and high quality. I love all the cute fanart, like the little chibi versions of all the characters. It’s so cute. Some people have great cosplays with incredible attention to detail, like the quilting they did on the jackets, the tattoos and just all the little details, it’s just amazing.
There are also the really funny ones, like there was a group of cosplayers who dressed up as Expedition 60 – the Naked Expedition. We don’t even have a picture for them in the game, right? It’s just a diary. But they came up with a great cosplay. They sent us the pictures, it was A+. The creativity is just off the charts. So yes, there has been great art.
And I think some people have felt inspired to write their own stories, both Expedition and non-Expedition stories. I think it’s amazing that people feel drawn to create. That’s a great compliment to know that people feel inspired by our game. I’ve gotten a lot of great messages from aspiring writers who told me they’ve always wanted to write, or writers who felt blocked or discouraged for a while. But after they play the game and engage with the story, they feel excited again. They feel alive and they feel ideas coming back, and they’re inspired to write again. And I’m like, wow, that’s crazy. That’s incredible.
You mentioned these tomatoes here. Do you have any other secrets, research or inspirations you used in creating Clair Obscur?
Svedberg-Yen: Oh yes, so for example, I had a plant there for a while with a little spider in it, and I named the spider Maurice. At that time I was writing a scene for Esquie. And I was like, oh, he should have an archenemy. And I’m like, what’s the most French name we can find? I immediately thought of François, our COO and lead producer. I’m going to name the frenemy of Esquie François! And later I asked (the real) Francois, are you OK with me naming the big turtle after you? He’s like, yeah, sure. It’s a nice character, right? And I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he’ll be super cute!
So I thought, great, we have François and Maurice, because they sound like very French names. And Maurice originally came from my little spider intruder. Maurice would become Esquie ‘s favorite rock, but Esquie calls him Morrie because it gives him extra movement. And then François would be very indignant – call him by his own name, Maurice! And that was one of the first ideas for the whole pet pride situation. Later on, we skipped Morrie because we already turned on movement, so we went straight to Florrie, who lets you float and swim. But yes, that’s where the rocks and their skills came from. There was Morrie, Florrie, Soarrie who makes you float, and later Dorrie and Urrie.
My dog Trunks was also an inspiration! That’s the inspiration for Monoco’s haircut, the relationship dialogue where Verso is like, let me cut your hair, you look like a mop. It’s because at the time Trunks’ hair was pretty overgrown and he looked like a walking mop. That’s what we say to him all the time, you look like a mop! It’s time for a haircut! There are lots of things like this everywhere.
Do you have a personal favorite of all those characters you created for the game?
Svedberg-Yen: Oh, that’s so hard. I love them all. It’s like asking about your favorite child. No, I don’t really have a favorite, because each of them has something cool and interesting about them that makes them fun to write or fun to explore. I know that as soon as I say one, I’ll say, oh, but this one too, but that one too, because they all have something unique. My relationship with each character is unique. So it’s really hard to say a favorite.
Did you find it hard to come up with all these previous expeditions about the backstory?
Svedberg-Yen: No, actually we came up with even more than that! We rearranged some of them and finally deleted some. But Guillaume and I came up with them together. So we both did a pass and just added random fun ideas. Some of them were specifically story-related and some laid sort of seeds for other things. Others were just like whatever random thing we thought might be funny. Like Expedition 60 was an inside joke between Guillaume and Alan, our character artist. And some were for story reasons, like the climbing expedition for the handles and for the grippers. Or the expedition of Lune ‘s parents.
And then we had a few that were meant to express different feelings that people would have. For example, the one that decided they would start their own new Lumière, their own city because dissidents were “encouraged” to participate in the expeditions to get them out. Or other expeditions, it was a comment that people disagreed with what Lumière was doing. There was an expedition that claimed all the airships and went rogue, things like that.
And for most of those, we hid a lot of our team members in there, they’re scattered throughout the game. Some of them visually, but most of them not, I don’t think we had enough time to put everybody’s face in there. But their names are scattered everywhere, like gestrals, Lumièrans, members of Expedition 33 and expedition members in previous journal entries.
Maybe it’s a personal question, and if so, I beg your forgiveness, but given the tremendous amount of loss in this game, it just keeps coming at you. Before all this, did you have some experience on a personal level?
Svedberg-Yen: Yes, I have channeled many of my personal experiences with loss. For me, there are many different kinds of loss. There’s the loss of people in your life, the traditional forms of loss. I lost my grandfather when I was younger, when I was in college. And that experience was very important to me. And so some of the feelings, the emotions, especially when Maelle said to Verso, I don’t need your condolences, people are trying to say all these things. That came directly from my experience when I lost my grandfather.
There are other forms of loss as well. Loss of friendships, everybody is still alive, you’re still alive, you still wish each other well, but you know the friendship as weakens over time, you know, you lose touch or you’ve both grown into different people who no longer interact in the same way.
There are also parts of yourself that are lost, both physically and mentally, or parts of your identity. As I get older, there are parts of my sense of self that are now gone, things you believed about yourself that you may no longer believe, you’re faced with some things that may no longer be true. You may mourn certain parts or periods of your life and the relationships you had at that time with yourself, with your friends, with your family. Or even with your community. Your understanding of society, of our world, of humanity and the best and worst of people. A sadness for the history we endured together.
I’ve gone through quite a few ups and downs in my life, like most people. I’ve really struggled a lot with different ideas about selfhood. When I try to understand, why do I believe the things I believe? Why do I feel the way I feel? Do I really believe them or was I just raised to believe them? And a lot of feelings of questions around my identity. As I grow and learn, there is beauty in that, but there is also sadness as my understanding deepens.
I am Chinese-American. I am not fully American by American standards. To most Americans, I will always be Asian. And yet in China, I am not one of them. I am not a native Chinese. I am an overseas Chinese. I will never be one of them. So I curdle out multiple worlds. And now I live in northern Sweden. I’ve also lived in Australia and Hong Kong and different places. I never really belonged anywhere. And so that’s also where Maelle’s feeling of not belonging is. I never really felt like I had a home, really, and never really felt like I knew who my people were. It wasn’t until I met my husband. He is now my sense of home. But before I met him, I often felt adrift and alone, a little crazy in my own weird little world.
I drew a lot on my 20s and my college years for Lune’s story, which is why she’s more of an academic, because I was in college and graduated. That sense of imposter syndrome, that weight of responsibility that you have to meet the expectations of others, the pressure to perform and achieve, that came from that period of my life when I was in college and later when I worked in finance.
With Sciel, she also reflects a lot of the journey I had when I was in my 30s, coming to terms with important life choices, finding my own form of peace. And how I would feel if I lost my husband. And for Sciel and for Sophie, for example, discussing children. Not to get too personal here, but we have often discussed whether we want to have children, and we are conflicted. Part of us wants it, part of us doesn’t. And for me, part of it was that I felt the world was in a not so great state before, and I didn’t want to raise my children in the areas where I lived. Actually, now in Östersund in Sweden, I feel like Östersund is a nice place. If I were younger, I would probably make a different choice now, raising children here I think would be safe and comfortable. But in the U.S. and other places I didn’t feel comfortable with it.
Sophie has a line where she says she loves her children so much, the best thing she can do for them is not have them. That’s actually taken from my own life, because that’s how I felt for a while. And there’s also a unique kind of grief there, where you’re mourning something you never had. But it’s the idea of something, and the possibility, the potential. Knowing that I will never hug my children or tell them I love them is a form of grief in itself. And it feels weird sometimes to say that because, you know, they don’t exist. How can you grieve for people you’ve never met?
But it’s something that I don’t think is unique to me. I think a lot of people feel the same way. So yes, there are many different forms of grief. And each of these characters represents a very real part of my life. For example, with Renoir and Aline, a lot of that comes from my relationship with my mother. Some of Renoir’s lines come directly from my mother. I understand the concern she has as a parent. I can see her point of view. But at the same time, I have my own point of view, and I have to live my life and make my own choices. So there is also sadness, about disappointing your parents, about having conflicts with your parents, where you have to…. You don’t want to break their hearts, but you know you do. And neither party wants to break each other’s hearts. But it happens.
Having had such tremendous success, I mean, you’ve sold several million of this game, where is the studio now? Is there much optimism in the future?
Svedberg-Yen: The team is very excited. The focus right now is on the existing game, we have a lot of feedback from players about things they would like to see improved, things they would like to see added. We are currently working hard on many of those features. I’m also the producer of speech and localization, so I’m working on additional languages for the game, because we very much want to bring the game to more people around the world. However, localization is quite an undertaking, it’s a lot of work, and it’s an art, not a science, and it’s incredibly important because so many of our players experience the game in a language other than English.
All of this will be found in our upcoming free Thank You update, which we hope players will enjoy! We have a bit of new content, new bosses, a new playable environment, new outfits. It’s our way of showing our appreciation to the players for their incredible support and enthusiasm.
Can I ask you, when people look back on Clair Obscur 10 years from now, what do you think, or what do you hope they will remember most about the adventure?
Svedberg-Yen: Oh, that’s a great question. In 10 years. I hope they will remember the feeling they had when they played it, and that they will remember an impact, remember an emotion. Whether it’s the excitement of the battle or the feeling of listening to the music and grooving to it, whether it’s the emotions of the story, whether it resonated with them for personal reasons or just because they love the characters. I hope they remember that feeling.
I get a lot of messages from players who tell me that they are lifelong gamers, that they love games like Final Fantasy, and they still remember that feeling they had when they first played it. They have that nostalgia because it had such a huge impact on them.
It would be great, great, if 10 years from now there’s a new generation of gamers who feel that way about our game. That they remember the feelings they had. They remember where they were when they played it. They remember that first thrill.
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